tak08810 wrote:
warden really is too strong, as is levia's ultimate...there's hard data to prove it

tbg and goblin and naga are clearly too weak
where is the hard data which proves wardens imbalance? Do you refer to monkeys post? Since what he posted was no "hard data" but rather a doxology of her skillset.
Warden can easily stopped by roars stun for instance. However, if someone is skilled enough to dodge the nuke and/or anticipate the nuke then sacreds quote is pretty well fitting: skill is imba.
Her ulti though is indeed imba because it cannot be stopped at all, except for attacking it. But it has fort armor and devour which makes it almost impossible to kill.

Levia's ulti is imbalanced because its effect still goes on even after the levia was disabled.

tbg is clearly too weak, I agree and to fix it she should get 4.2 unholy aura. Atm there is no reason to pick her.

That goblin and naga are CLEARLY too weak I disagree at the moment. If you look at the hero list you'll see that none neither picked naga nor goblin.
Goblin was just buffed I thought? None tried him so far but you claim he is clearly too weak?
Same for Naga, none picked her after she got nerfed so how do you know she is clearly too weak?



And that should also consider pubgames for balance is stupid imo because then sharon probably needs a nerf.

tak08810 wrote:

anyways it's pretty clear people are idiots when it comes to a consensus on how good or bad a hero is...remember when boar was owning with crypt lord and people started saying, "I've always said Crypt Lord is imbalanced" LOL

or nfa is trash and then two games have shown he can dominate in a strong combo

people saying warden was out of the picture and then boar raping with her and curi too today, and others

people saying tinker is imbal, then playing him and can't make it pass level 10
Agree

lol wut? i don't see how anyone logical can argue that warden isn't imbalanced or that goblin/naga aren't weak. you do realize that people have played both heroes in inhouses right? they just were randomed either time. a quick glance at their skills and stats says it all. better yet why don't you play goblin or naga and prove us wrong...

it really isn't that hard to dodge the nuke if you have zero lag... warden right now is a top farmer, top hero killer, and top supporter/counterer AND one of the hardest heroes to counter herself. That = gg.

like i said, the majority of games are pubs. i don't see how roaaaarrr can have his map cater only to like fifty people, if that much. and sharon's very strong in pubs so i don't think she needs a buff or nerf. again, the main problem is that she doesn't combo well and that any good player knows a dozen counters to her spells. blade sucks in inhouses, are we gonna buff him?

I just checked the hero list thread and it said goblin warfare: 1, naga: 1
So after 1 game each you judge about a heroes strength or weakness after one single game. I can remember you telling sacred that it's the worst to judge after 1 game...
Don't get me wrong, I don't say those heroes are fine, too weak or op. My point is just that it is too early to fix possible imbalances although there are those imbalances are not even found yet.

Warden has counters, her ulti doesnt have any counters. That's the difference.
By the way, dodging nukes isn't that easy. You need timing to do it and if you are able to do it then it's not warden's imbalance but your skill.
How would you balance warden?


I think you know that it's not possible to balance the map for pubs. Pubs think 4.2 was the most balanced footy, in an inhouse it was just abuse frenzy...

I agree warden is too strong.

I disagree naga is weak. The amount that I changed it was so minuscule that she really isnt much different... people just overreact anytime something is changed. Plus I find her boring to play.

I definitely disagree dh is weak. Still probably the single strongest hero in the game when he levels up. Just because it now requires unit use and you cant just constantly bounce base to base and end up 10 lvls ahead doesnt make him weak.

you know goblins' been randomed like three times right? monkey doesn't count randoms as picks. roaaaarrrr i want a comment on buffing GW hero is SHIT and just ruins your credibility as a balancer if you let him sit there in the current state.

Naga was only barely nerfed? Are you sure? I feel like immolation is shit now. If this is true and you can show me the stats I apologize.

What are you going to do in regrads to TBG and Warden? I think Warden's AoV should be none-spell immune and given hero armor (wtf fortified armor?). also maybe increase mana for FoK again.

I didn't say balance the game for pubs, I said balance the game with PUBS in mind. That means don't buff Halp, Blade, or Sharon cause they're completely fine in a pub setting although they're pretty atrocious in inhouses for various reasons.

well, if you are going to do something about warden then increase the mana cost of the first 3 levels of fok to 100 mana.
Or warden will be definitely what falcon is thinking of naga right now

I don't know how many times goblin was ranomded but I refer to the ap list because imo ap games are the best to judge on balance.


I know what you meant with balancing with pubs but do you realize that the game will be always imba for pubs? I have seen pubs so often cry about imbalance, for instance in 5.3 levia LOL or 6.2 counter mage, ...
Pubs get owned by something and they say imba and rage quit. You mentioned bm but I wouldn't say bm is more imabalanced than an a Levia for example. The only reason pubs whine about bm is that bm kills their heroes... but I could easily get an am and make an herokiller out of it and pubs would complain just as much as they complain about bm.
Balancing the game with pubs is not possible because skill is imba.

bear wanna do hero killer am with me?
last time i did it we had 2 ult claws, 1 maul, 3 axes for items. hahah

can we also buff weak heroes next patch?

Buff DK imo. Set Death Coil to have no maximum damage cap. Raise Dead units should also be magic immune.

dk is very fine imo

buff far seer eq.
buff tbg.
make frost arrows worst maxing or get rid of it on both heroes.
give jaood summon tank.
nerf bladestorm, there is no reason a hero killer should have the income to get t5 and whore items, even a strong tech can't stop bladestorm if he has axes + potions.
fix exp.
fix exp before nerfing warden and panda again, if you do them both then they become the less than average heroes again.

wait what? no damage cap on death coil? what does this mean it only hits one target anyways...

also animate dead should not be spell immune considering if you have a good tech they can easily base and if they're si they can't be countered at all

i'm assuming your post was just trolling?

tak08810 wrote:
wait what? no damage cap on death coil? what does this mean it only hits one target anyways...

also animate dead should not be spell immune considering if you have a good tech they can easily base and if they're si they can't be countered at all

i'm assuming your post was just trolling?

Obviously.. Anything I say about DK will always be heavily biased.

But TBG, Goblin Warfare and other such nab heroes need to be leveled.

Naga - remove evasion and give her a summoning spell (summon naga sirens or murgal reavers or something). The more summons in the game, then CM gets indirectly buffed. I don't see the need for buffing his Ultimate, it's not supposed to be a rip-off of Billk's Ulti. Buff cold arrows slightly

TBG - remove Shadowstrike and replace with a different spell. Look to buff her cold arrows slightly.

Goblin Warfar - I don't have a clue how to play this hero, but it seems he is straight trash until level 16. And even then he's only a threat when he's using his ulti.

Sacred Reich wrote:
Buff DK imo. Set Death Coil to have no maximum damage cap. Raise Dead units should also be magic immune.
eh? what do you mean with no maximum damage cap?
Coil does like 1k dmg at level 6, no damage cap would mean a coild would deal infinite damage? O_o


Nagas evasion removal would be a nerf to her.
TBGs problem is the aura.
Goblin: I dunno, I thought he was fine..
Sharon: Imo a good idea would be to replace bloodrage with chemical rage (different model ofc) and increase her str gain per level a little bit. The idea behind the skill change is that you could chemical rage->ulti->invul pot => farm
Invul pot: 15 secs again please, as I mentioned above it was rather a nerf than it fixed any issues. On a side note: I have never seen a hero owning a base with invul pot in 7.1b anyway